INTERVIEW: Ghais Guevara @ The Cantab Lounge 8/1

Photo Credit: Sandra Ebert

Interview by James Klein

I spoke with Ghais Guevara before his show at the Cantab Lounge on Saturday night. Hailing from North Philadelphia, Guevara is an underground rapper and producer known for incorporating leftist geopolitical ideology throughout his music. We discussed his artistic process, how he constructs album narratives, reading political theory, his inclusion in the Super Bowl LIX Halftime Show, LeBron James joining his Philadelphia 76ers, the next steps for his career, and much more. 

James Klein (JK): Thank you for taking the time to do this! I’m gonna get started with a question about your early career. In an interview last year, you talked about how you dropped out of school at a young age to be homeschooled, and you started making beats on the laptop they provided for you. Looking back, how did this decision shape you as an artist? And if you could go back, do you think you’d do it differently?

Ghais Guevara (GG): I won’t say that it’s necessarily surprising, ’cause I did have people surrounding me that heard my frustration surrounding school and what I wanted to do, and understood, but didn’t really know what to do about it. To generalize it, I had a prediction of some sort, like “this is better off for me,” quote-unquote. It feels pretty cool. I do think I could have been a bit more decisive and asked for help in the right places. We always can. Everywhere. 

JK: I get that. That shows that from a young age you knew what you wanted, and it helped you get to the point where you’re at today. It’s inspiring. Getting into your career since then, you recently described your past four albums as a quartet, going from “Goyard Comin’: Exordium” introducing Goyard, then exploring psychological themes on “Goyard Ibn Said,” extending these themes with a prequel tale on “Goyard & The Kayfabe Reveal,” and challenging Goyard and the audience on perspectives and what rappers can be with “The Other 2/5ths.” When did you realize that these projects were becoming a part of this larger narrative? 

GG: It was really during “Goyard Ibn Said.” I remember initially the point of it, the two-sided thing, was to display the duality of mainstream and underground. Something about that direction didn’t feel authentic to me, ’cause I just grew up enjoying both.
It wasn’t either/or for me. So, kind of last minute, I decided to push that “You Can Skip This Part” and push treating the album like the sum of its parts. So, right then and there around “Goyard Ibn Said.”

JK: Do you think the whole Goyard story has already been told, or is there more to come from developing this character?

GG: There’s definitely more to be told. I think “Kayfabe” definitely pushed it to its subject-type limits, and at a certain point, you’re just telling a story with the biggest words possible. It’s not necessary. I realize that I’m coming to a point where I’m telling a story of my journey, which applies to a lot of other people’s conflicts and lives.
I think my awareness and participation in that lays a good path for whoever the hell wants to listen, for better or worse.

JK: Yeah, that makes sense. You recently wrote a post describing “Goyard & The Kayfabe Reveal” as “not your strongest lyrical storytelling project, but as a very essential one;” so, even if people may have their own issues with it, it’s essential to this larger narrative of your discography. What makes it so essential, and what does it bring to your discography that other albums couldn’t? 

GG:
It really emphasizes my intent with taking the lyricism beyond “best rapper” and trying to be in that conversation of songwriters and having rappers be in that conversation with songwriters that contribute to a wider world. Why can’t Nas be considered in the same realm as, like, Bono? You know what I mean?
So, it’s my attempt to show how vast and how complex that can get. And the audience, in knowing that I can do that, every time I play with it now in later albums, it’s authentic. So I had to make sure I did that work.

JK: That’s great. Laying the groundwork for the future work.

GG: Taking the sacrifice (laughs). 

JK: “Kayfabe” is a great album; I’ve been listening to it all week. One of the things that was less clear to me was the meaning of the album cover. It’s very visually interesting, but it’s hard to tell what’s going on. Could you walk us through the meaning of this album cover? 

GG: Well, honestly, I don’t even know. It’s a surrealist painting of Oedipus Rex, and it’s by Max Ernst. Old enough to be public domain. I just figured it fit all of the Oedipus themes, the anti-Oedipus themes. And it being surrealist lets the audience, reviewer, or listener know this is a freaked-out interpretation. If you know what it is, you know what you’re getting into. 

JK: It’s for sure surrealist, and I can see how it goes in with the Oedipus themes across the album, so that’s interesting to know. Also, this album contains many samples. Throughout all your work, you have lots of samples, but you really have a range here from Solange, Dionne Warwick, to Don Toliver, on “Unreliable Narrator,” which was one of my favorites. Also on “2/5ths,” you sample from Queen, Cameron Winter, and Neutral Milk Hotel. What makes you hear something and decide that you want to sample it?
Is there a process there, or is it natural? 

GG: I used to keep a list, but that’s gone now. It’s been hard because I haven’t been making beats recently. A lot of those beats for “Kayfabe” were older, like a year or two years old, so even back then, I was digging and digging. But a lot of it was how hard can I manipulate or make my own what’s popular and known to the world, instead of just looping shit. Mission accomplished, I hope. 

JK: If that’s your mission, it’s accomplished throughout what you’ve done so far, and it seems like you’re planning on continuing that.

GG: I think being able to take that stuff and emphasize the times that I was in with these samples gives perspective to a lot of what’s being said lyrically.

JK:
So, you have these musical inspirations, but obviously you have a lot of other inspirations from philosophy, politics, history, and literature. I was wondering if there were any books you read recently that have really stuck with you or influenced your thinking as an artist.

GG:
I’m smiling like this because I’ve actually been reading on tour. I started reading Carl Jung. Because that just felt like the natural next step, against what Freud was doing–“man-and-his-dreams” and all of that. I want to start Bergson, but Bergson be doing formulas. That’s beyond my stuff. I finished “Against Interpretation” by Susan Sontag. It perfectly simplifies a lot of what I feel is wrong with the post-irony perspectives on music and how people consume it. She does it well. Ahead of her time, too. Shit like that. Otherwise, for enjoyment, I’m reading “Mason & Dixon” by Pynchon. Also, Joyce Carol Oates’ “Them,” but it got wet, so I had to order another copy. When I don’t feel like actually learning something, that’s what I dive into for entertainment. 

JK: Do you feel like you have enough time to read on tour? 

GG: Not really a lot of time. Because I like to take shit in. It’s hard. I actually suck at fucking reading–I overprocess. I have to really make the space and time for it for a lot of the time. In the car for the ninth hour isn’t usually the best time (laughs).

JK: Yeah, that makes sense. Especially since you gotta get the sleep in, too. It’s sometimes easier to just go on Instagram. 


GG: Yeah, you get it–just a passive scroll.

JK: I was wondering how you originally got into reading theory. Is this something you’ve been doing for a while now? When did you start to become more serious about it? 

GG: I remember being recommended “Consciencism” by Nkrumah. That’s the “BlackBolshevik” cover. And I was like, “okay, this is kind of dope.” Every now and then you kind of understand what’s being said and you want to investigate more. I think “Consciencism” was my start with that, because I really liked “Africa Must Unite,” or how it started; I didn’t finish it. It really triggered with Fanon in “Black Skin, White Masks.” I haven’t even deeply done “The Wretched of the Earth,” believe it or not. But he brings up Freud, and then Lacan. 

JK: Yeah, that’s all connected. You can map the theory.

GG: You can see it throughout.
In my samples, if you peep it, you can also see the path–the academic conversation that’s being had.

JK: It’s cool to follow that conversation, whether starting with the earlier works or going from Fanon to Freud, backwards. Similarly, from early on in your career, you’ve described yourself as a “geopolitical communist” rapper, and you’re one of the few artists that’s been willing to be super public about their ideology. Some have described you as a “political agitator”; to others, it’s just what you’re reading. Since this ideology comes with a lot of history and different interpretations behind it, what is your own definition of your ideology? 

GG: I’ve been in conversation with a lot of people that have been pushing me into thinking that blackness is inherently anarchic. I like the sound of it, but I don’t know. I like that idea that because of the slave trade I’m sitting in this fluid political limbo. I’m not against being called a commie; it hasn’t been practiced enough for me to be like “fuck that.”

JK: Right. And at the end of the day, labels don’t mean or matter much nowadays. There’s so much history that you’ve spoken about before on Pan-Africanism and socialism. They all come together. 

GG: Yeah, they all weave and bend. 

JK: You don’t necessarily need to put a label on it.

GG: Exactly, not until you establish your state (laughs). 

JK: Yeah, but you’re working on that (laughs). I’m interested: what is your ideal goal in what you’re reading and thinking about politically? 

GG: Honestly, early on, it was to educate, educate, educate. But I’m realizing I’m learning more and more about myself as I go on–and again, like I said, tracing them. So by the end, I want this to be a stream of consciousness, coming-of-age story.

JK: Cool. Thanks for sharing; I know political stuff is sometimes hard to talk about.

GG: Not anymore, bro. Not in these times. It’s too absurd. Say what you want. 

JK: Great, I appreciate it that you’re willing to share this type of stuff in interviews and throughout your music. 

On this tour, you bring out local DJs and collaborators on each stop. You also have Cavalier and student 1 at most shows, so every show feels a little different. Why was it important to you to build the tour this way? How has that been so far?

GG: Well, it’s a combination of efficiency and our own personal preference for people — people that want to be around. If you leave that to the people that don’t operate in our spaces, you end up with a bunch of people you don’t want to be around. It’s wanting to have more control as indie artists, and knowing what to do, because we are in the know. 

JK: So you’re well into this tour. I was wondering if you’ve noticed any differences between crowds in different cities, and how you manage different crowds?

GG: It’s been pretty predictable, fortunately. I’m finding my pocket; I’m figuring it out. When you do certain things, you now know how to weave them into other shows. 

JK: On “2/5ths,” you have the song “Every Tour Date Is A Gatsby Party.” What’s the most “Gatsby party” tour date you’ve had yet? 

GG: It hasn’t come yet. It’s gonna come soon. 

JK: Maybe tonight?

GG: It might be tonight, lowkey. It might be Brooklyn, but Brooklyn’s on a weekday. It might be Minnesota because that’s student 1’s hometown and they like to show up. We’ll see. 

JK: Hopefully that Gatsby party comes. I have a few more fun questions to finish this off. Arguably the most exposure your music has gotten to a larger audience was the use of your song “The Old Guard Is Dead” at the start of Kendrick Lamar’s Super Bowl halftime show. I was wondering what impact this has had on your career. Did it bring a lot of visibility?

GG: It definitely brought a lot of visibility. It was really cool. I think the lack of understanding how things work between the audience and the industry makes people think there was a lot more magic behind it than there was. But still, dope nonetheless, and of course it was people doing good work. Made a little money off of it, but money comes and goes (laughs). 

JK: Nice. Do you still get royalties off of it? 

GG: Every time they use it on a network, but not on YouTube. 

JK: That’s interesting to hear. I have another sports-related one; You’re from Philadelphia, so I have to ask: what’s your stance on LeBron signing with the Sixers last week?

GG: Need that. I don’t like the ring chasing blah blah blah. He’s 42, shut up. Embiid has to finally have a healthy year. There’s no way he doesn’t. I’m glad they got Morey the fuck out of there so we can actually do some roster-building. It’s exciting. I haven’t been to a game in a while, so I’m gonna try to make it. 

JK: I would also love to see them play. I’m a Knicks fan, though. 

GG: Battle of the century! My homie FARO is a big Knicks fan, him and Wahid. So I’m gonna be beefing with them.

JK: You guys also got Brown from Boston. Maybe you have to accept the ring-chasing?

GG: We have no choice. It’s been 40-something years.

JK: You deserve it. So, this interview is going to be put on our student radio website. From your perspective, five years removed from being college-aged, do you have any advice for students my age?

GG: I’m at a very advice-giving time in my life. How can I word this? Time feels different when you concentrate. Understanding what you’re putting your time towards, and how to truly measure that, listening to your body and your brain, figuring out what exhaustion really means to you. It’s a superpower. Figure that shit out early. Swear to God, that shit’s crazy. 

JK: Anything to say to the rest of the world?

GG: End the war with Iran. That feels very appropriate. I feel like people are expecting me to say that. There are so many to go through, you know what I mean? Free Sudan. 

JK: I have another question on a hot topic right now. In “Your Getaway (Ad Break)” you say “Lineup at the festival got A.I. in the instrumental, You just wanna get into some trouble with ya’ friends.”
Where do you think AI’s place in music is, and where do you think we should go from here with it? 


GG: As a guy who burns out from 30 minutes of a computer task, I really would appreciate it if some fucking dork robot organized my files for me. But that’s about the extent of it. 

JK: It seems like all the dorks right now are making AI music platforms.

GG: Yeah, like what are y’all doing? Utility is not the capitalist way.

JK: Last question. You’ve released a lot of albums, you’re on tour right now, and you’re at a great spot in your career. What can we expect next from Ghais Guevara? 

GG: I want my next project to really feel like my next big project. I’ve been releasing projects and albums on albums, but I want this one to have the polish, the spirit, the attention, just to see what happens (laughs). 

JK: That’s exciting–I’m sure it’s gonna be good. Everything else recently has been great. And tonight, hopefully, it’ll be a great show. Have a good end to the tour, and we’ll see what happens from there. But thank you so much for taking the time to do this, I appreciate it. 

GG: Appreciate you!

This interview was edited for clarity